I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. A place where magic is studied and practiced? Will use the Schluter Shower system. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? And for a more secure fit, you can also use screws. Will be doing a bathroom gut and will be laying durock cement board over plywood sub floor. The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Properly waterproofing a shower area sharing a living room wall, Can I use cement accelerator to decrease setup time of modified thinset. If there is no blocking behind the seam, i would just tape prior to installing the membrane, the thinset will fill the seam and embed the mesh. Hang the cement boar. When installation is done properly, Kerdi membrane offers a waterproof barrier that can protect the plywood below from moisture. Hardie board is a cement-based siding product that is water-resistant, but not waterproof. This allows for future compression and an area at the corner where things are more forgiving. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. Contact us: 888-472-4588 This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is best for interior projects, but if youre installing outdoors, you should use thinset with a polymer modified (PM) compound for greater moisture resistance. the cost of the tile job. To waterproof Hardie board, you should choose a quality sealer that is designed for use on cement-based sidings. To line niche shelves, for instance. Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. A lot of folks like using cement board but it's heavy and requires a waterproofing membrane over it. DensShield is one common brand. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. 1. An extra layer of thinset is then added to the surface of the cement board to adhere the tiles in place. En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. The problem is on the back side of the drywall, which is not protected. If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. Will use the Schluter Shower system. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. Finally, it is important to remember that any thin-set that has been exposed to moisture must be replaced. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. What are the differences between "paperless drywall" and "cement board"? Self-leveling underlayment has many of the same advantages as a dry-pack mortar bed but doesnt require as much skill to install. MAPEI makes products for each step of the remodel process, giving you a single source solution, and only one phone number to call if you need assistance! Given the complexity, its easy to see why even experienced tile setters avoid dry-pack mortar and use backer board instead when they can. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? On top of that, fiber cement board is even more brittle than standard cement board, so you have to be extra careful to keep screws at least an inch from the edge to avoid breaking the board. Kerdi-Board panels allow the installer to prepare and create a broad range . If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. Hi.I have a unique situation. Your Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro contractors near you. Moisture resistant can cause similar problems, and there is absolutely no advantage to it. I circled one area, but there are lots of these edges." - Lisa Jasper The Kerdi band should be smooth and flat - not wavy/ "3) there is no membrane of waterproofing on the hardboard across from the "wet wall" after 5 1/2 feet up. When it comes to applying KERDI, however, it is advised to use a regular thinset that includes portland cement as its main component. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. Schluter-KERDI is a pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membrane and vapor retarder with limited crack-bridging capabilities. To line niche shelves, for instance. Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? No, you do not need to install a vapor barrier, as Kerdi Board is the vapor barrier. A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. Why does the plumbing rough need to be moved? When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. Also - use a good thinset. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. Sweeby-Can you clarify- I undestood that the thinset would tend to dry out from the thirsty hardi or skim over from the air; so how does booking the Kerdi help with the first? You are telling someone "to have" an artistry that not only takes art skills, knowing how to mix mortar for different situations, and a good amount of practice. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. How do you show the depth of a hole in a drawing? Creative, C'mon over for a beer! When installing KERDI with . Good luck with your project. Cement boards are typically capable of withstanding larger amounts of water, while a Schlter system is designed to hold up well only in dry conditions. #4 You could be adding a good 1000 pounds to your install too. When it comes to tile underlayment, your options can be categorized into three main classifications, each suitable for different tiling circumstances: Although cement board is the most commonly used underlayment for tile, Kerdi board is growing in popularity as a multifunctional tile substrate. The product involves an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with specialized reinforcement materials on both sides. Thanks to all for the feedback. Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. Sure, you can do it.just be sure to "spritz" or wet the hardi thoroughly before.it's pretty "thirsty.". What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . 173 upvotes. How to adhere edge of bullnose tile to drywall as trim for shower/tub surround. Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? All it takes is the right preparation. Ditra is manufactured in a 3'3 width and comes in various roll lengths (54sf, 150sf, and 323 sf). . Properly waterproofed Hardie board should last for many years. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving independently? What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? And second, since it's foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. Yes. Ideally the DalSeal TS would fold into the gap between the wall and ceiling concrete board. It is easier to cut than cement board, it is mold resistant, and it has a built-in moisture barrier. I hang Kerdi on cement board and fibercement board all the time. They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard . That's the way us "Tile Guys" do it all the time. Why you use cement board? Aquadefense is approved by IAPMO for use as a shower pan liner, but be sure to check your local building codes, as some areas of the country still require the PVC liner. There are numerous ways to do this. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top, and use a rolling pin to press it down and ensure a secure bond. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. Ratings (91) (5) (91) (3 . rev2023.3.3.43278. I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. I still wet the walls first. The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. When I tried putting up the first sheets, which were only 36" x 39", and even though I had SOAKED the hardi, to the point water was pooling on the floor, the thinset was already drying before I got the Kerdi up, and I couldn't get it to adhere properly no matter how hard I tried. Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? It could take longer if the space is particularly wet or humid. We mixed the thinset, it wasn't as smooth as the utube video, but it was close, and we gave it ten minutes. Houzz Pro: One simple solution for contractors and design pros, surfer thanked Avanti Tile & Stone / Stonetech. Yes, Schluter membranes can go over cement board. Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. x 60 in. It worked well - just like wallpapering. By the time you switch from the RG application to the Kerdi installation, it should be dry. Your air bubbles will travel along the valleys you've made, and it's way better if you only have to move them 20 inches to the nearest edge rather than all the way from the ceiling to the floor [Again, Mongo can, but he has mad skills].-Not paying attention to the principle of bedding top down, center out. Installation; As the GoBoard is very lightweight, it becomes easy to . What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? This product is available in 3/16", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" 3/4", 1" 1-1/2" and 2" thicknesses, allowing for a wide variety of installation options. That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. They are available in thicknesses of 3/16, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, and 2 (5, 9, 12.5, 19, 25, 38, and 50 mm). Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Make sure to use multiple coats, if necessary. The Kerdi/Daltile TS underlayments do have some valid applications such as in steam shower installations where a bullet proof vapor barrier is required. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. Ceramic and porcelain tile, more than almost any other surface material, need a stable . I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. Additionally, all thin-set should be allowed to cure for 24 hours before tiles are installed. The most important thing to remember when applying the membrane over the cement board is to make sure the surface is clean and free of any debris, dust or other contaminants. After roughly two days I would fill the corner with silicone. see Prop 65 WARNINGS. The Ditra uncoupling design is lightweight, durable, and minimizes the possibility of cracked tile and grout. My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. A hundred times better to have too much before you comb than too little. In . When applying thin-set mortar, the manufacturers instructions should be followed closely. Cement board is a mineral-based board, usually 30 inches by 60 inches, that is used as a lower, dimensionally stable surface for installing ceramic tile, porcelain tile, or stonework. And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. The manual can be found here: http://floorelf.com/waterproof, I would say unless you are experienced in working with Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing membrane kit, then I would say work with an easier waterproofing approach, either liquid waterproofing or a combination of liquid and traditional waterproofing (plastic covering the wood frame). I can take a bit of it off the wall and roll it into a ball. x 96 in. Once the adhesive has been applied and has had time to properly cure, then the KERDI membrane can be applied to the wall. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. They are square. The grid lines on the surface are incredibly helpful for installation and making neat cuts. This is a bit difficult to answer as it depends on the particular application for the floor system. Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? Dean, our tile consultant, says glass mat backer board is his first choice due to the ease of installation, cost, and because his workers like it. A good rule of thumb is 24 hours per inch of thickness, then one more day on top of that to be sure. RedGard can be applied to cement board panels in two ways: Roll it on the wall with a 3/4-inch nap roller or spray it on the wall. To put things into perspective, consider that a tile floor is made up of three layers: the subfloor, the underlayment, and the tile surface you walk on. To properly seal a cement board for a shower, its important to first properly prepare the surface. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. She grew up surrounded by constant home improvement projects and owes most of what she knows to helping her dad renovate her childhood home. We use a pump action garden sprayer and its usually dry by the time we clean the sprayer. Do I have to use Kerdi tape with Ditra membrane? Important to overlap seams in a shingle method. Any recommendations? Sloped Shower Tray KST1220/1525 - The Home Depot. It only takes a minute to sign up. Bathroom closets are often catch-alls for anything and everything remotely related to self-care. Kerdi membrane prevents water damage and mold development. Kerdi Board as a whole is much easier to install than Cement Board. The use of modified thinset adhesive could result in an inadequate bond and could lead to possible delamination. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. I appreciate your help and your quick response. Such membranes typically come in a brush or a roller form and can help create a durable barrier against water infiltration. This is the traditional tile backer. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. Step 1: Measure the area. It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. The waterproof membrane isn't a substitute for the substrate. This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. Not everyone knows how to do mud and lathe it's so old school plus it wears you out, ive been a setter for 27 yrs and I have yet to go back to one of my showers I installed using perma base or durock, with a liner, i have started using waterproofing such as redguard or aqua-defense. Kerdi membrane can be used on cement board, drywall, and, as you may have guessed- greenboard. We want that inside corner able to move. This is necessary to ensure that the membrane will adhere properly to the drywall. ! 3. Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. I posted a plea for help and Mongo and Bill both gave me good advice. Seams and joints should also be waterproofed and caulked to prevent water from seeping through. Its essential to protect surrounding wall and floor surfaces from water or moisture damage that can occur in these areas. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. Building Panel: Price $ 119 00 $ 202 06 $ 279 00. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-box-3','ezslot_2',173,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-box-3-0');Yes, you can put Kerdi membrane over cement board. I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. You are wise to use a cement board. How did this project turn out? It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. The cement board core itself is not waterproof, but it can withstand water without falling apart. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Not to mention, its warrantied by Schluter, giving you the ultimate peace of mind. Once youre sure that the membrane is completely dry, you can then move forward with tiling. Once the wall is prepped, use a primer that is compatible with the KERDI membrane so that it will properly adhere to the wall. I would avoid Hardi, as Avanti is right that it is thirsty. Your real issues are the lack of proper corners on this shower. @DMoore- OK, I agree that with redguard it would be redundant. rev2023.3.3.43278. First, felt paper is stapled to the floor and covered with expanded metal lath. I simply sponge off the excess. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. I would get someone else. Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. If youre not careful, the boards can also leave behind abrasive sandy crumbs that can cause damage to your shower base or tub. We are still most comfortable with full plumber's pan over the curb, including glue-on preformed corners, and also a second layer (usually Kerdi but can be paint-on) on top of CBU wrap over curb. RedGard On Hardibacker Board. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Applying a conventional cement backer board to such a structure is almost impossible. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? Kerdi, a waterproofing membrane made of a special polyethylene fabric, should be allowed to completely dry prior to tiling.
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