Patrick Tate: So it's very typical. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. No that's a little bit outside the range. And listeners this has been a lively conversation we're sorry we didn't get to all the the e-mailed comments and the phone calls your stories are appreciated even if we didn't get a chance to hear them today. Peter Biello: Today on the program Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist and far better project leader Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in which is about the natural world and how we use it. It doesn't happen as much anymore. Peter Biello: Ok. Caller: Yeah. Right. We'd love to have you in the queue. Support for an age PR comes from you our listeners. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. Tim Yeah. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. Residents Report Mountain Lion Sighting By Elysia Rodriguez Published August 11, 2015 A southern New Hampshire neighborhood believes a mountain lion is roaming the woods near their homes. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. So so they're just a very resilient species and they're pretty they're pretty neat. I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. Give today. This is the exchange. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. And it's not really strong. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. From "History of New Hampshire Game and Furbearers" by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. Patrick Tate: Yes. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. You're on the air. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. nh.gov | privacy policy | accessibility policy How far were you from this cat. Don't miss your chance to win three two thousand dollar gas gift cards at any station of your choice not to mention the grand prize twenty five thousand dollars toward a new car. There's no logic for why they'd be listed as an endangered species. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. So what those ranges. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. Think you've seen a mountain lion? The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. There's no attraction. What's going on. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence, Right? Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. They sent it already. So so do what you can get to do what you can to get proof. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. From involving members in projects as local as cleaning up an area park or as far-reaching as bringing sight to the world's blind, Lions clubs have always . Your support makes this news available to everyone. You don't know what's going on. You saw what you saw. I mean they're a survivor. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. Verifiable pictures recorded by the observing person or a trail camera. I just want to tell you a story that I read. Well I can't tell you what you saw. He says when youve got a mountain lion in town, its kinda obvious. There was no sign of it. So for our scientists to do the lumping and whatnot. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And so. The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. You know perhaps poke around where you saw it and see if you can find a track. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. So one thing that I find fascinating about this Connecticut cat was six months between the New York situation where they found evidence of it too when it was hit by a motor vehicle. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. So take care of this problem. Erler is a senior naturalist at the Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness. Well they are the same. So one thing I'll add. for some excitement. The Connecticut Mountain Lion is the best documented wild Mountain Lion in New England. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. Give us a call if you have a question or comments or story about perhaps seeing a mountain lion here in New Hampshire. Why are there so many false positives? These young males are tracking looking for mates and if they don't find a mate they just keep moving and moving and moving. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. So. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. Sam Evans-Brown: I just want to say the bang and word you just heard I think to me exemplifies why it's really hard to come up with with positive you know 100 percent certain evidence that you've that what you've got is a mountain lions. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. 1,470 likes. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. Something along those lines. Do they travel. Sue Morse: First and foremost if you have color or if you could see details of color look at the front of the face around the Pumas muzzle the muzzle itself is pure white. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. OK. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. Patrick Tate: It's wow interesting that you brought this up because I've had people report I saw cardamom. One was in Shelton. For me as a person who's handled many bobcats and looked at many pictures Bobcat the White chin Bobcat right off is what comes out to me and then the black the the roughs on our Bobcats we'll have sometimes have black fringes on them. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. Post your sightings and NH photos here! HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. So they're scary. Thanks for your call. Thanks for calling. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. Rick van de Poll: Well I didn't. Thank you. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. Does not test random Scouts. Have a photo. brings a lot of. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. It's you know I recognized their report and. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. www.wildlife.state.nh.us, Buy or Renew Your Saltwater Fishing License, Great Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve. Well within there. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. Its actually fairly reasonable to believe that mountain lions do, at least, pass through occasionally. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. Mountain lions can be found throughout Arizona, and data suggests the populations are not only stable, but growing. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. But no proof was offered. You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. Peter Biello: Wow. Mike thanks for your call. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. John you're on the air. It was not a bobcat. And we want to know your stories if you have them 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or email exchange at an HP bar dot org we'll talk about conspiracy theories when we come back. Mountain lions (especially males) have incredibly large ranges that they defend from rivals. Okay. Caller: Oh hi. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. These were normal everyday folks. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. The current estimate is 2,000 - 2,700 throughout Arizona. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. Give today. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. Theres tracks everywhere. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. But you've done some reporting on this. The panther, Fells concolor, is a beast of many names, most frequently referred to in New Hampshire history as catamount, but sometimes known locally as "Indian Devil" or "Carcajou", under which . And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. We'll push great photos to the front page. Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. I've actually had to walk in on one or two now and look at what was going on and figured out what was going on. So that did it for me. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. Well let's hear from from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track. So what a neat experience. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. It's bigger but bigger and better world. Peter Biello: Let's talk to Ron and where Ron thanks very much for calling. Mountain Lion | Squam Lakes Natural Science Center All exhibit and hiking trails are CLOSED for the season. Do you want to see real, living mountain lions that do exist in New Hampshire. Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. On a dirt road. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. You treat it as if it's a sincere situation. Administrative Links. Some are included in lists of mountains, such as the Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC) list of the Hundred Highest peaks of New England, or the . Rick your thoughts. She quotes a biologist in Lyme New Hampshire who who is keeping two mountain lions himself so in the not too distant past in the early nineteen hundreds it was perhaps more common and still in Maine. Well thanks for sharing. Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. Yes and you want to share what you learned. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. Rick van de Poll: Yes. They used to roam the entire continent, but have become extinct in most US states. The great thing about pictures isn't the animal itself it's the background. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. Let's look for other evidence. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. Rick van de Poll: Well education is the real important thrust of of what all of us do as biologists and Game Managers and to make sure that a things like what Sam was saying that in spite of what you believe the mountain lions will not eat your children they will not steal your pets from your backyard and they will not necessarily be seen by you unless you're extremely lucky. No doubt in my mind it was. Like why would you want one wildlife. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. Can you tell us about that story. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story.
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